1 00:00:22,030 --> 00:00:09,080 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:28,330 --> 00:00:24,620 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:32,060 --> 00:00:28,340 episode number 371 for the 29th of 4 00:00:33,830 --> 00:00:32,070 November 2015 Richard Saunders here with 5 00:00:35,540 --> 00:00:33,840 you from Sydney Australia that funny 6 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:35,550 buzzing noise in the background you can 7 00:00:39,910 --> 00:00:37,370 hear is the air conditioning because 8 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:39,920 sometimes it's very hard to do the 9 00:00:45,860 --> 00:00:43,050 voiceover work for this show in a closed 10 00:00:47,930 --> 00:00:45,870 room on a hot day I hope you'll 11 00:00:50,990 --> 00:00:47,940 understand I quite like air conditioning 12 00:00:53,270 --> 00:00:51,000 it's good to live in an age of science 13 00:00:54,770 --> 00:00:53,280 which brings us air conditioning 14 00:00:57,950 --> 00:00:54,780 especially when you live in a hot 15 00:00:59,899 --> 00:00:57,960 country like Australia what's coming up 16 00:01:01,969 --> 00:00:59,909 on this week's show well it's may not 17 00:01:03,979 --> 00:01:01,979 may not spooky action more about may not 18 00:01:05,420 --> 00:01:03,989 coming up later in the show there's a 19 00:01:07,700 --> 00:01:05,430 special night he's putting on a new 20 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:07,710 castle where he's going to be playing 21 00:01:13,010 --> 00:01:10,890 the old spaceballs movie it's called 22 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:13,020 Maynard the farce awakens more about 23 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:14,850 that later hope to see you there but 24 00:01:18,649 --> 00:01:16,170 anyway may nod to kick off the show 25 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:18,659 Maynard chat to dr. Mel Thompson who was 26 00:01:22,100 --> 00:01:20,010 at the Australian skeptics National 27 00:01:27,170 --> 00:01:22,110 Convention Mel's going to be chatting 28 00:01:32,330 --> 00:01:27,180 about her um problems health problems 29 00:01:34,250 --> 00:01:32,340 and how she's tackling them and some 30 00:01:36,740 --> 00:01:34,260 interesting advice for people with 31 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:36,750 similar problems and the rest of us how 32 00:01:41,690 --> 00:01:39,090 to relate to people who have certain 33 00:01:43,460 --> 00:01:41,700 medical problems hmm that's a bit 34 00:01:45,590 --> 00:01:43,470 cryptic isn't it I think you'll enjoy 35 00:01:49,910 --> 00:01:45,600 this interview with may not conducted in 36 00:01:52,970 --> 00:01:49,920 his usual style following that it's 37 00:01:55,340 --> 00:01:52,980 evidence please with Joe alabasta this 38 00:01:59,680 --> 00:01:55,350 week Joe's going to be looking at the 39 00:02:03,530 --> 00:01:59,690 crazy alternative medical practice of 40 00:02:07,730 --> 00:02:03,540 cupping cupping this is where you put 41 00:02:11,300 --> 00:02:07,740 hot cup shape containers on your back or 42 00:02:13,580 --> 00:02:11,310 your front I don't know and heat them up 43 00:02:15,619 --> 00:02:13,590 or heat them up beforehand and it's 44 00:02:18,470 --> 00:02:15,629 supposed to draw out the toxins and all 45 00:02:22,130 --> 00:02:18,480 this sort of new-age weaselly washy 46 00:02:24,199 --> 00:02:22,140 wishy-washy stuff does it probably not 47 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:24,209 but Joe will tell us all about that 48 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:28,530 coming up in Joe's evidence please then 49 00:02:33,420 --> 00:02:30,090 it's a week in science on the Royal 50 00:02:37,740 --> 00:02:33,430 Institution of Australia w w RI 51 00:02:39,599 --> 00:02:37,750 us dog got a you hello everybody there I 52 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:39,609 do like visiting that institution I did 53 00:02:44,539 --> 00:02:41,650 that to about a year ago had a wonderful 54 00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:44,549 time then to ran off the show I speak to 55 00:02:50,009 --> 00:02:47,650 Tamara Robertson from California who's 56 00:02:51,809 --> 00:02:50,019 involved in the new series which you may 57 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:51,819 have heard being talked about here on 58 00:02:58,949 --> 00:02:54,370 the skeptic zone the feeling joob all 59 00:03:02,610 --> 00:02:58,959 about food myths what's her story does 60 00:03:06,059 --> 00:03:02,620 she like food I like food we'll find out 61 00:03:07,890 --> 00:03:06,069 coming up to round off the show now 62 00:03:10,050 --> 00:03:07,900 before we get stuck into the show a big 63 00:03:12,629 --> 00:03:10,060 thank you to everybody who have sent me 64 00:03:15,530 --> 00:03:12,639 birthday wishes and greetings thank you 65 00:03:19,349 --> 00:03:15,540 very much yes yesterday was my birthday 66 00:03:23,129 --> 00:03:19,359 the big 50 why don't they call it the 67 00:03:24,780 --> 00:03:23,139 small 50 the little the minor 50 thee so 68 00:03:28,619 --> 00:03:24,790 what did somebody call me the other day 69 00:03:32,940 --> 00:03:28,629 they called me a junior geriatric um 70 00:03:35,550 --> 00:03:32,950 hello to all the 1965 is out there we've 71 00:03:37,500 --> 00:03:35,560 made it to 50 unbelievable most of us as 72 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:37,510 a few yet to come actually in December 73 00:03:43,550 --> 00:03:39,970 hmm but now it's time for me to run 74 00:03:48,300 --> 00:03:43,560 downstairs and have the last slice of 75 00:03:53,460 --> 00:03:48,310 the birthday cake which was red velvet 76 00:03:56,490 --> 00:03:53,470 with cheese cake icing or frosting my 77 00:04:00,330 --> 00:03:56,500 goodness me it was almost worth waiting 78 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:00,340 50 years for mm-hmm well I do that I 79 00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:20,640 here's my not spooky action at the 80 00:04:27,689 --> 00:04:26,339 well I was watching something pretty 81 00:04:29,550 --> 00:04:27,699 interesting on stage earlier I was 82 00:04:31,589 --> 00:04:29,560 looking up an iron saw I saw inside this 83 00:04:33,809 --> 00:04:31,599 woman's body I saw your staples I know 84 00:04:35,909 --> 00:04:33,819 it's but they're great hump a who are 85 00:04:37,980 --> 00:04:35,919 you and why are you doing here I'm dr. 86 00:04:42,409 --> 00:04:37,990 Melanie Thompson I'm here to talk about 87 00:04:45,629 --> 00:04:42,419 my experiences as a patient as a 88 00:04:47,490 --> 00:04:45,639 recently diagnosed Ms patient but as 89 00:04:49,559 --> 00:04:47,500 well as how I'm marrying that with my 90 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:49,569 professional career as a evidence-based 91 00:04:54,059 --> 00:04:51,970 medicine practitioner as a scientist 92 00:04:56,309 --> 00:04:54,069 working at a medical school as a doctor 93 00:04:57,990 --> 00:04:56,319 yourself did you do a self diagnosis on 94 00:04:59,879 --> 00:04:58,000 you because doctors can get a bit you 95 00:05:02,610 --> 00:04:59,889 know paranoid I'm not that kind of 96 00:05:04,649 --> 00:05:02,620 doctor oh I'm a science doctor here 97 00:05:09,930 --> 00:05:04,659 today I'm not a doctor doctor other were 98 00:05:11,790 --> 00:05:09,940 and basically my diagnosis was quite 99 00:05:14,809 --> 00:05:11,800 challenging at a start because I thought 100 00:05:17,969 --> 00:05:14,819 it was based on we all thought including 101 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:17,979 various ophthalmologists etc etc that it 102 00:05:21,930 --> 00:05:20,050 was sort of acquired brain injury from 103 00:05:24,869 --> 00:05:21,940 fender bender accident I'd had two days 104 00:05:27,510 --> 00:05:24,879 before I lost my sight so we were all 105 00:05:29,370 --> 00:05:27,520 focusing on that and by the time they 106 00:05:31,170 --> 00:05:29,380 actually stuck me in an MRI machine I've 107 00:05:32,550 --> 00:05:31,180 got my vision back and I was able to 108 00:05:33,570 --> 00:05:32,560 drive again so I thought nothing all 109 00:05:35,070 --> 00:05:33,580 that I thought well they say my rods 110 00:05:37,260 --> 00:05:35,080 just going to be a it's going to be just 111 00:05:38,249 --> 00:05:37,270 a bit i run of the mill they're going to 112 00:05:39,719 --> 00:05:38,259 tell me there's nothing wrong with me 113 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:39,729 and send me home for Christmas and then 114 00:05:43,559 --> 00:05:41,289 saw those little white bits they went 115 00:05:45,659 --> 00:05:43,569 little they were massive 2-centimeter 116 00:05:46,980 --> 00:05:45,669 tomb effective Legion as well as some 117 00:05:50,070 --> 00:05:46,990 other smaller legions so they were 118 00:05:51,990 --> 00:05:50,080 pretty substantial brain lesions and 119 00:05:53,879 --> 00:05:52,000 look having spoken with Tim Ferguson 120 00:05:56,219 --> 00:05:53,889 about this about about his reaction to 121 00:05:59,550 --> 00:05:56,229 that what's it but what do you go into 122 00:06:01,320 --> 00:05:59,560 how does one handle that I mean I'm now 123 00:06:02,730 --> 00:06:01,330 it's a very blunt question but I can't 124 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:02,740 really get my head around that so the 125 00:06:07,409 --> 00:06:04,330 first thing I did was biting Ferguson's 126 00:06:08,730 --> 00:06:07,419 book carry a big stick yes yes so the 127 00:06:10,649 --> 00:06:08,740 first thing I did was buy that I send my 128 00:06:13,559 --> 00:06:10,659 husband down the local bookshop said 129 00:06:14,450 --> 00:06:13,569 come back with to Ferguson's I carry a 130 00:06:18,620 --> 00:06:14,460 big stick and I went 131 00:06:20,809 --> 00:06:18,630 I'd follow him on Twitter and knew his 132 00:06:23,529 --> 00:06:20,819 issues obviously and I follow what's a 133 00:06:26,719 --> 00:06:23,539 big fan big fan girl when I was a child 134 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:26,729 not well child teenager wasn't quite 135 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:29,490 legal um look there's a lot love teenage 136 00:06:32,870 --> 00:06:31,050 angst at their gigs at that time yeah 137 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:32,880 exactly and I never got to go because I 138 00:06:36,350 --> 00:06:34,530 would they I think they left the country 139 00:06:38,059 --> 00:06:36,360 before I turned 18 and was able to go to 140 00:06:39,740 --> 00:06:38,069 any big gig so I've always had this I 141 00:06:42,350 --> 00:06:39,750 thought I finally went to see there for 142 00:06:45,950 --> 00:06:42,360 them do a gig at jalan maybe six months 143 00:06:48,020 --> 00:06:45,960 ago first time and I'm like yay um but 144 00:06:51,860 --> 00:06:48,030 yeah sorry reading his book was really 145 00:06:54,469 --> 00:06:51,870 interesting and his approach really well 146 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:54,479 yeah I've got this thing but and I like 147 00:06:58,310 --> 00:06:56,250 the chapter where he's like going and 148 00:07:00,770 --> 00:06:58,320 here's here's my spiel don't try and 149 00:07:02,810 --> 00:07:00,780 give me the woo I was like yeah you go 150 00:07:04,370 --> 00:07:02,820 girl yeah well he's had tapeworms offer 151 00:07:06,980 --> 00:07:04,380 to him and that's all hookworms that's 152 00:07:08,300 --> 00:07:06,990 when I find weird I mean because I do it 153 00:07:10,159 --> 00:07:08,310 because I mean infectious disease expert 154 00:07:12,050 --> 00:07:10,169 us previously it's been a lot of time on 155 00:07:14,629 --> 00:07:12,060 the stop the avian hashtag helping out 156 00:07:17,270 --> 00:07:14,639 the really great group of people that 157 00:07:20,510 --> 00:07:17,280 have been driving changing that way and 158 00:07:22,730 --> 00:07:20,520 I've the vaccine trolls tried to tell me 159 00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:22,740 I had fun tell me that my ms was caused 160 00:07:28,550 --> 00:07:25,710 by a vaccine injury and I went thanks 161 00:07:31,370 --> 00:07:28,560 for that block oh yeah how would you 162 00:07:34,939 --> 00:07:31,380 even relate that back what auto immune 163 00:07:36,830 --> 00:07:34,949 injury isn't it ms yeah but over the 164 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:36,840 entire life yeah and that's when I was a 165 00:07:40,219 --> 00:07:38,370 mother thing when I was sort of talking 166 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:40,229 to this troll about was well if that is 167 00:07:44,659 --> 00:07:42,330 true there'll be a lot more people with 168 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:44,669 MS yeah there be a lot more people 169 00:07:49,850 --> 00:07:45,810 there's not that many people they mess 170 00:07:51,620 --> 00:07:49,860 so really hmm I don't not your vaccines 171 00:07:53,420 --> 00:07:51,630 cause MS he's not holding mortal with me 172 00:07:54,860 --> 00:07:53,430 right now this is what I was told only 173 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:54,870 last week I was talking about this all 174 00:07:58,279 --> 00:07:56,370 you know Tim Ferguson they go yeah well 175 00:07:59,839 --> 00:07:58,289 everyone I know who's got a mess has got 176 00:08:01,279 --> 00:07:59,849 pale skin and they don't get a lot of 177 00:08:02,810 --> 00:08:01,289 sunlight so it's probably caused by lack 178 00:08:04,550 --> 00:08:02,820 of vitamin D that's what I was told in 179 00:08:06,890 --> 00:08:04,560 one go because they because I know two 180 00:08:08,060 --> 00:08:06,900 people but and then Tim didn't go out 181 00:08:11,420 --> 00:08:08,070 much doing the dopest is working in 182 00:08:13,220 --> 00:08:11,430 clubs at night well yeah but no any 183 00:08:14,630 --> 00:08:13,230 vitamin D link at all 184 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:14,640 there is a vitamin D link and it but 185 00:08:22,220 --> 00:08:16,410 it's only been shown scientifically 186 00:08:24,470 --> 00:08:22,230 recently I am a son lover okay I spend 187 00:08:27,290 --> 00:08:24,480 my whole time outside without sunscreen 188 00:08:30,020 --> 00:08:27,300 much to the horror of my GP and this 189 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:30,030 before I had my ms diagnosis alright cuz 190 00:08:32,510 --> 00:08:31,410 i lived in the UK for 12 years and 191 00:08:34,550 --> 00:08:32,520 frankly when you live in the UK 192 00:08:36,680 --> 00:08:34,560 especially the northern UK in York where 193 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:36,690 I lived you don't see this on much and 194 00:08:39,290 --> 00:08:37,890 when it comes out you're literally out 195 00:08:40,969 --> 00:08:39,300 there on your bikini going burn me burn 196 00:08:42,680 --> 00:08:40,979 me let me tell you at lunch time 197 00:08:44,210 --> 00:08:42,690 everybody's out there with their shirt 198 00:08:45,830 --> 00:08:44,220 off in their undies out of the office in 199 00:08:47,450 --> 00:08:45,840 the park it's amazing getting their 200 00:08:49,820 --> 00:08:47,460 vitamin D because it sounds much much 201 00:08:51,650 --> 00:08:49,830 weaker there and so you need Australia 202 00:08:52,730 --> 00:08:51,660 you can get vitamin D just on your you 203 00:08:55,130 --> 00:08:52,740 know your arms in your face we've been 204 00:08:56,510 --> 00:08:55,140 doing minutes but in England you really 205 00:08:59,120 --> 00:08:56,520 have to work at it and you have to take 206 00:09:01,760 --> 00:08:59,130 a summer holiday and so now I'm actually 207 00:09:03,740 --> 00:09:01,770 committed to taking winter sun holidays 208 00:09:07,190 --> 00:09:03,750 now that I've had my diagnosis I went to 209 00:09:08,510 --> 00:09:07,200 Fiji chopped up the tan and my vitamin D 210 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:08,520 levels have been recommended to stay 211 00:09:12,860 --> 00:09:11,490 above 75 okay the average for a normal 212 00:09:15,830 --> 00:09:12,870 person are tablets are good for this 213 00:09:18,110 --> 00:09:15,840 honor yes okay yes they can be I don't 214 00:09:20,330 --> 00:09:18,120 take them personally but my GP is trying 215 00:09:21,950 --> 00:09:20,340 to convince me I'm always of the opinion 216 00:09:24,050 --> 00:09:21,960 scientifically you actually need the 217 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:24,060 sunlight the UV light to actually 218 00:09:28,730 --> 00:09:26,850 convert the tablets that the vitamin T 219 00:09:31,220 --> 00:09:28,740 you take into an activated form so you 220 00:09:32,510 --> 00:09:31,230 do need that step with the UV but having 221 00:09:33,590 --> 00:09:32,520 said that if you take a lot of 222 00:09:36,380 --> 00:09:33,600 supplements then there's a lot more 223 00:09:38,690 --> 00:09:36,390 vitamin D waiting to be activated and so 224 00:09:40,850 --> 00:09:38,700 it tends to be a self activating cycle 225 00:09:44,300 --> 00:09:40,860 well okay and what other wove you had 226 00:09:46,010 --> 00:09:44,310 shoved your way I mean and you must be 227 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:46,020 just up for an argument so much like 228 00:09:49,310 --> 00:09:47,610 people add so you know you can get 229 00:09:51,770 --> 00:09:49,320 really really indignant more than 230 00:09:53,300 --> 00:09:51,780 anything it's been great just I mean I 231 00:09:55,820 --> 00:09:53,310 was like having a child diagnosed with 232 00:09:57,980 --> 00:09:55,830 autism gave me a bit of that where i 233 00:09:59,990 --> 00:09:57,990 came across patients that a pip fellow 234 00:10:02,030 --> 00:10:00,000 fellow like mothers of the school gate 235 00:10:03,620 --> 00:10:02,040 who have children that were diagnosed 236 00:10:05,630 --> 00:10:03,630 with autism and they'd be like oh yeah 237 00:10:07,460 --> 00:10:05,640 we took into a naturopath or not maybe 238 00:10:09,740 --> 00:10:07,470 you know that and I said I work on seed 239 00:10:12,050 --> 00:10:09,750 if you know back to your are yeah we 240 00:10:15,350 --> 00:10:12,060 took our son to a this doctor bio 241 00:10:18,259 --> 00:10:15,360 medical doctor who gave him a high dose 242 00:10:20,660 --> 00:10:18,269 beta lactam Aizaz or something um i 243 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:20,670 really don't do that we can oh don't do 244 00:10:24,949 --> 00:10:23,490 that and i said but if it makes you feel 245 00:10:27,230 --> 00:10:24,959 better that you're doing something for 246 00:10:28,519 --> 00:10:27,240 your child that's what that's what 247 00:10:30,500 --> 00:10:28,529 you're addressing here and that's what 248 00:10:32,630 --> 00:10:30,510 people don't understand is that they 249 00:10:35,060 --> 00:10:32,640 feel powerless against these diseases 250 00:10:36,620 --> 00:10:35,070 that have no cures and they feel they 251 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:36,630 need to be doing something to make 252 00:10:39,860 --> 00:10:38,010 themselves feel better and sleep at 253 00:10:42,199 --> 00:10:39,870 night well this is something I spoke to 254 00:10:44,990 --> 00:10:42,209 about with Nicole Rogerson about her 255 00:10:47,030 --> 00:10:45,000 issues with their but there's a touch of 256 00:10:48,230 --> 00:10:47,040 parental is a touch of parental guilt 257 00:10:50,090 --> 00:10:48,240 there or something you feel like there's 258 00:10:51,889 --> 00:10:50,100 something you've done and and that you 259 00:10:54,170 --> 00:10:51,899 want to undo it is that part of it all I 260 00:10:56,060 --> 00:10:54,180 mean you do get that and then listening 261 00:10:58,880 --> 00:10:56,070 to Loretta talk about your cancer and 262 00:11:00,920 --> 00:10:58,890 and how this whole fight a warrior meme 263 00:11:02,990 --> 00:11:00,930 that goes on and I got that and I was 264 00:11:04,460 --> 00:11:03,000 like you could cough with that and 265 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:04,470 actually if you've got I've got a 266 00:11:08,300 --> 00:11:06,450 wordpress blog being honor and people 267 00:11:10,610 --> 00:11:08,310 still do it to me and I'm politely 268 00:11:13,460 --> 00:11:10,620 saying for them please don't give me the 269 00:11:15,500 --> 00:11:13,470 fight of me said all I'm doing now so 270 00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:15,510 this is an incurable disease oh you 271 00:11:19,970 --> 00:11:17,760 gotta have hope i'm like no i don't i do 272 00:11:21,889 --> 00:11:19,980 not have to have her I've heard that 273 00:11:24,199 --> 00:11:21,899 what the fighter meme is really annoying 274 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:24,209 too because in people I've spoken to 275 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:26,130 with breast cancers have been remission 276 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:28,290 but remission it's a it's not a fight 277 00:11:31,699 --> 00:11:29,970 it's like being on a horrible roller 278 00:11:32,870 --> 00:11:31,709 coaster that sometimes slows down then 279 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:32,880 flows up and sometimes it's good 280 00:11:36,019 --> 00:11:34,170 sometimes it's not is that it said it's 281 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:36,029 an anal allergen it's good maybe but the 282 00:11:42,019 --> 00:11:38,370 point about fighting is that you have 283 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:42,029 agency over your disease yeah now you 284 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:44,730 have agency over various things in your 285 00:11:48,980 --> 00:11:47,010 life I katkar you by what job you do 286 00:11:50,750 --> 00:11:48,990 what the university degrees you study 287 00:11:52,430 --> 00:11:50,760 but you do not have agency against 288 00:11:54,139 --> 00:11:52,440 various things and I presented three 289 00:11:56,060 --> 00:11:54,149 life major life events that happened to 290 00:11:59,090 --> 00:11:56,070 me and the third one with my ms 291 00:11:59,940 --> 00:11:59,100 diagnosis but I had a miscarriage I had 292 00:12:09,660 --> 00:11:59,950 a 293 00:12:11,220 --> 00:12:09,670 there's no point telling someone they're 294 00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:11,230 a fighter because it means that if 295 00:12:15,180 --> 00:12:12,430 they're not fighting hard enough they're 296 00:12:17,610 --> 00:12:15,190 just not trying and that is just wrong 297 00:12:20,010 --> 00:12:17,620 and you shouldn't lay that kind of guilt 298 00:12:21,930 --> 00:12:20,020 on someone and that's what happens yeah 299 00:12:23,610 --> 00:12:21,940 like it you can fight this you can find 300 00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:23,620 it so you're not thinking positively 301 00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:25,510 enough about it it's your fault because 302 00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:28,000 you're not you're not trying you're not 303 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:29,350 fighting the cancer because if you just 304 00:12:33,060 --> 00:12:31,450 try to make some organic food you'd be 305 00:12:34,950 --> 00:12:33,070 fine if you think it is the further 306 00:12:37,140 --> 00:12:34,960 people are away from that kind of thing 307 00:12:38,580 --> 00:12:37,150 the more they think like that I think so 308 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:38,590 i know i think the rise of social media 309 00:12:44,250 --> 00:12:42,850 which i use a lot has been interesting 310 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:44,260 in that way because you get a lot of 311 00:12:48,270 --> 00:12:46,450 family and friends that are ignorant the 312 00:12:49,950 --> 00:12:48,280 trying latest stuff on now I spoke in my 313 00:12:52,350 --> 00:12:49,960 talk about a woman i worked with that 314 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:52,360 has an inoperable brain tumor of the 315 00:12:57,900 --> 00:12:54,330 kind that bill Gibson thought she had 316 00:12:59,790 --> 00:12:57,910 well pretended she had now it's gonna 317 00:13:01,980 --> 00:12:59,800 kill her she may never see her daughter 318 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:01,990 who was four she was pregnant with when 319 00:13:05,130 --> 00:13:03,610 she was diagnosed with it she may never 320 00:13:06,900 --> 00:13:05,140 see him a daughter grow up because it 321 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:06,910 can't it's slow growing but it's growing 322 00:13:13,950 --> 00:13:12,490 and so she had a aunt turn up on her 323 00:13:15,690 --> 00:13:13,960 doorstep one Friday evening when she was 324 00:13:19,950 --> 00:13:15,700 trying to have your nice quiet car 325 00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:19,960 dinnae in the garden and say to her oh I 326 00:13:24,540 --> 00:13:22,480 met this guy down the park who owns an 327 00:13:25,860 --> 00:13:24,550 organic food shop and basically she was 328 00:13:27,780 --> 00:13:25,870 describing they'll give some sport and 329 00:13:30,180 --> 00:13:27,790 he said that it's got this book with 330 00:13:33,460 --> 00:13:30,190 this woman this is cured her brain tumor 331 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:33,470 with her diet just by eating organic and 332 00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:35,210 was being told to Michelle membership 333 00:13:40,510 --> 00:13:38,480 that this woman is got a PhD in science 334 00:13:42,220 --> 00:13:40,520 okay so she was looking at her aren't 335 00:13:45,010 --> 00:13:42,230 going thank you for that it's illicit 336 00:13:47,290 --> 00:13:45,020 advice so yeah that this kind of 337 00:13:51,010 --> 00:13:47,300 well-meaning unsolicited advice really 338 00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:51,020 creates this culture of you know other 339 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:52,910 people wanting you to do something about 340 00:13:56,950 --> 00:13:54,410 your disease because they've read about 341 00:13:58,090 --> 00:13:56,960 it on some website yeah and they haven't 342 00:13:59,290 --> 00:13:58,100 really thought a lot about it before 343 00:14:00,610 --> 00:13:59,300 they've come to you and they don't know 344 00:14:02,740 --> 00:14:00,620 what the effect is when they say that to 345 00:14:04,930 --> 00:14:02,750 another person yeah because you know 346 00:14:07,690 --> 00:14:04,940 they might be it's well-intentioned but 347 00:14:09,340 --> 00:14:07,700 it's quite damaging and psychologically 348 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:09,350 how can you prepare yourself for the 349 00:14:12,670 --> 00:14:11,090 sort of thing I that's very naive 350 00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:12,680 question I'm asking but that's cuz I 351 00:14:16,150 --> 00:14:14,720 wonder yeah well it's basically you just 352 00:14:19,210 --> 00:14:16,160 have to develop resilience to that kind 353 00:14:21,010 --> 00:14:19,220 of thing you do need to be very be 354 00:14:23,290 --> 00:14:21,020 prepared to cut people off that you 355 00:14:25,060 --> 00:14:23,300 consider toxic okay right and they may 356 00:14:27,790 --> 00:14:25,070 be family members so it's definitely 357 00:14:30,750 --> 00:14:27,800 it's hard and it can be isolating but 358 00:14:33,250 --> 00:14:30,760 and then I mean I have got a lot where I 359 00:14:35,890 --> 00:14:33,260 tend to be the sort of black sheep of my 360 00:14:37,629 --> 00:14:35,900 family because I'm not Christmas be 361 00:14:40,670 --> 00:14:37,639 great with you yeah 362 00:14:44,090 --> 00:14:40,680 it was really not bright um and 363 00:14:45,530 --> 00:14:44,100 basically because it over the rest of my 364 00:14:47,239 --> 00:14:45,540 family think Andrew bolts a great guy 365 00:14:49,129 --> 00:14:47,249 and has better ads more scientifically 366 00:14:51,759 --> 00:14:49,139 aware than I am Wow and so that's always 367 00:14:53,650 --> 00:14:51,769 you know uncomfortable and 368 00:14:55,689 --> 00:14:53,660 inside you've got to be prepared to 369 00:14:57,489 --> 00:14:55,699 remove toxic people from your life now 370 00:15:00,489 --> 00:14:57,499 you want to talk toxins it's mostly 371 00:15:02,169 --> 00:15:00,499 psychological toxins I fine and you need 372 00:15:04,540 --> 00:15:02,179 to find a support network and I was very 373 00:15:07,389 --> 00:15:04,550 lucky as I said in my talk the people 374 00:15:10,119 --> 00:15:07,399 that responded when i was in my you know 375 00:15:12,579 --> 00:15:10,129 the christmas new year nightmare that i 376 00:15:15,539 --> 00:15:12,589 had over Christmas I had my Twitter 377 00:15:18,189 --> 00:15:15,549 buddies now a lot of them were skeptics 378 00:15:19,869 --> 00:15:18,199 some of them were big Nobel Prize 379 00:15:22,689 --> 00:15:19,879 winning scientists they came and visited 380 00:15:25,449 --> 00:15:22,699 me on my house to say hi how're you 381 00:15:27,039 --> 00:15:25,459 going now and that was amazing it was 382 00:15:29,109 --> 00:15:27,049 really really amazing and that kind of 383 00:15:31,449 --> 00:15:29,119 support that I got from the skeptics 384 00:15:33,129 --> 00:15:31,459 family particularly was just just so 385 00:15:34,269 --> 00:15:33,139 grateful for okay and you're not sitting 386 00:15:35,739 --> 00:15:34,279 around either you're getting out there 387 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:35,749 and doing some activism you're talking 388 00:15:39,999 --> 00:15:37,730 at the end of your talk about how our 389 00:15:41,799 --> 00:15:40,009 regulatory authorities aren't doing much 390 00:15:44,919 --> 00:15:41,809 and could you explain to the listener 391 00:15:46,929 --> 00:15:44,929 what was said by one of them about how 392 00:15:48,759 --> 00:15:46,939 if there's someone doing a shonky thing 393 00:15:50,559 --> 00:15:48,769 medically that they've better consider 394 00:15:53,100 --> 00:15:50,569 the business owner could you explain 395 00:15:56,379 --> 00:15:53,110 that again yes so basically the TGA is 396 00:15:59,619 --> 00:15:56,389 not fully independent and the TGA had is 397 00:16:00,819 --> 00:15:59,629 required by their code to basically 398 00:16:02,949 --> 00:16:00,829 address the needs of all of the 399 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:02,959 stakeholders now they are the 400 00:16:06,669 --> 00:16:04,490 stakeholders in this particular case in 401 00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:06,679 case of WoW is that is the pharmacies 402 00:16:11,410 --> 00:16:09,110 who sell Blackmore's you know super in 403 00:16:13,929 --> 00:16:11,420 switz vitamins which most of that 404 00:16:15,549 --> 00:16:13,939 stuff's not evidence-based they're the 405 00:16:17,410 --> 00:16:15,559 natural path there the complementary 406 00:16:19,179 --> 00:16:17,420 therapies are the acupuncture people all 407 00:16:22,809 --> 00:16:19,189 of those people are making a lot of 408 00:16:24,009 --> 00:16:22,819 money in the economy ingredient so the 409 00:16:25,569 --> 00:16:24,019 fact that they're actually making money 410 00:16:26,980 --> 00:16:25,579 is taken into account of their an active 411 00:16:28,689 --> 00:16:26,990 business and they don't want to send 412 00:16:30,579 --> 00:16:28,699 them broke correct correct that has to 413 00:16:32,650 --> 00:16:30,589 be taken into account the evidence is 414 00:16:35,049 --> 00:16:32,660 not the only thing that is to be taken 415 00:16:36,939 --> 00:16:35,059 into account business requirement is 416 00:16:38,019 --> 00:16:36,949 also to be taken into account and that 417 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:38,029 was the most frightening thing I've ever 418 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:39,490 heard anyone say 419 00:16:43,139 --> 00:16:41,050 that was from basically the guys second 420 00:16:44,610 --> 00:16:43,149 in charge of the TGA did you spit it I 421 00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:44,620 was the flory trying to be professional 422 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:47,920 and I was thinking that um and it was 423 00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:49,690 you could see them we can when they were 424 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:51,279 questioned by the scientists and the 425 00:16:55,410 --> 00:16:52,930 practitioners and the people in the 426 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:55,420 audience they said look it's just the 427 00:16:58,740 --> 00:16:57,130 way it is that's just the look that's 428 00:17:00,269 --> 00:16:58,750 that that's our code that's our code 429 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:00,279 that's our guidelines we can't do 430 00:17:08,100 --> 00:17:05,290 anything about it okay yeah so and 431 00:17:10,949 --> 00:17:08,110 that's the thing if it's basically I was 432 00:17:14,250 --> 00:17:10,959 saying to Loretta who was speaking on 433 00:17:15,780 --> 00:17:14,260 the TGA just now I spoke to her and I 434 00:17:19,470 --> 00:17:15,790 said look we just need to burn the TGA 435 00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:19,480 down completely right so replace it with 436 00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:21,130 something else perhaps yes and start 437 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:24,089 again basically a lot of it is funded by 438 00:17:29,610 --> 00:17:27,490 industry body so that the way it's grown 439 00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:29,620 up pretty much it's it's been a sort of 440 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:30,880 organic thing and no one's really paid 441 00:17:34,830 --> 00:17:33,010 attention and most of the regulatory the 442 00:17:37,380 --> 00:17:34,840 proper regulatory stuff is done by the 443 00:17:39,570 --> 00:17:37,390 FDA or the European regulatory agencies 444 00:17:42,690 --> 00:17:39,580 for biotechnology and literally the tj's 445 00:17:45,410 --> 00:17:42,700 rubber stamp and the rubber stamp is 446 00:17:48,180 --> 00:17:45,420 really not helping in this case you know 447 00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:48,190 so Mel what can we do there that the 448 00:17:50,970 --> 00:17:49,510 skid the people listening that want to 449 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:50,980 have a bit of activism going on is there 450 00:17:54,180 --> 00:17:52,570 someone we can write to a website we can 451 00:17:55,290 --> 00:17:54,190 go to same where we can like make you 452 00:17:57,330 --> 00:17:55,300 feel a little bit better about what's 453 00:17:59,130 --> 00:17:57,340 going on person oh just you know I get I 454 00:18:01,980 --> 00:17:59,140 get angry but it's righteous anger and 455 00:18:03,299 --> 00:18:01,990 so it makes me feel good and I quite 456 00:18:08,310 --> 00:18:03,309 quite quite it's a good feedback loop 457 00:18:09,630 --> 00:18:08,320 for me but basically really the best 458 00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:09,640 thing to do is to write to your local 459 00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:12,370 MPs and say close a loophole the TGA 460 00:18:15,390 --> 00:18:14,110 loophole on particularly the one I was 461 00:18:17,490 --> 00:18:15,400 presenting with autologous stem cell 462 00:18:18,860 --> 00:18:17,500 transplants now we're hoping that's 463 00:18:20,250 --> 00:18:18,870 going to close soon they've had all the 464 00:18:23,370 --> 00:18:20,260 consultation with the stakeholders 465 00:18:25,049 --> 00:18:23,380 period and you know the NHMRC and the a 466 00:18:26,370 --> 00:18:25,059 are at the training academy science of 467 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:26,380 all basically said now this has gotta 468 00:18:30,980 --> 00:18:28,530 stop gotta stop 469 00:18:32,510 --> 00:18:30,990 but you know also the natural breathy 470 00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:32,520 and all the other people are saying no 471 00:18:38,170 --> 00:18:35,910 no it's really useful and then some 472 00:18:41,090 --> 00:18:38,180 medical doctors who particularly the 473 00:18:44,510 --> 00:18:41,100 people doing knee cartilage operations 474 00:18:46,490 --> 00:18:44,520 where there's been some successes they 475 00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:46,500 are in the middle saying no no we don't 476 00:18:49,220 --> 00:18:47,910 want to be regulated because we won't be 477 00:18:52,130 --> 00:18:49,230 able to provide it with for up to our 478 00:18:53,870 --> 00:18:52,140 patients okay so there is some evidence 479 00:18:56,060 --> 00:18:53,880 that may work in that case familiy in 480 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:56,070 particular cases that again the evidence 481 00:19:00,290 --> 00:18:57,690 isn't fully formed it needs more 482 00:19:03,230 --> 00:19:00,300 clinical trials but again these 483 00:19:05,780 --> 00:19:03,240 practitioners I've spoken to him and his 484 00:19:07,250 --> 00:19:05,790 commercial backers at these meetings 485 00:19:10,190 --> 00:19:07,260 because I go to them and I speak to them 486 00:19:11,870 --> 00:19:10,200 and basically they're saying well you 487 00:19:13,580 --> 00:19:11,880 know we want that we want the evidence 488 00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:13,590 but they're quite happy to still take 489 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:17,310 people's money that aren't eligible for 490 00:19:21,860 --> 00:19:18,930 their trials so they have a trial 491 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:21,870 eligibility under there normal clinical 492 00:19:26,090 --> 00:19:24,570 trials guidelines but then the people 493 00:19:28,130 --> 00:19:26,100 that aren't I was like sorry we can't 494 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:28,140 put you on the free trial but you can 495 00:19:32,570 --> 00:19:30,570 pay 10 grand to have it anyway okay it 496 00:19:33,740 --> 00:19:32,580 might it's we think and it's pretty much 497 00:19:35,540 --> 00:19:33,750 evidence base but we haven't actually 498 00:19:37,850 --> 00:19:35,550 created the evidence base for that yet 499 00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:37,860 but just in case give us 10 gram will 500 00:19:40,970 --> 00:19:39,360 give you the give you the stem cells I 501 00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:40,980 like that it's pretty much evidence 502 00:19:46,940 --> 00:19:45,360 based early so almost yeah you could if 503 00:19:49,310 --> 00:19:46,950 you jump off the building pretty much 504 00:19:50,660 --> 00:19:49,320 you could be ok but no maybe not it's 505 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:50,670 evidence based probably not likely 506 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:51,690 you've never jumped off a building 507 00:19:57,530 --> 00:19:54,930 before we don't know yeah yeah but this 508 00:19:59,480 --> 00:19:57,540 is it it said it's very frustrating in 509 00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:59,490 that way what's your website or blog 510 00:20:02,420 --> 00:20:00,720 where we could check out what's going on 511 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:02,430 with you yeah well I mean I've got a 512 00:20:07,930 --> 00:20:04,410 sort of mixed bag on my blog but my blog 513 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:07,940 is dr. Mel Thompson without a P at 514 00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:11,130 wordpress.com okay and make sure I give 515 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:12,480 you a shout out on bunga bunga with tim 516 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:14,490 ferguson the podcast i do with him ya 517 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:15,690 know he's great i haven't met him yet 518 00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:17,330 but I a minute 519 00:20:24,260 --> 00:20:19,440 desperate to meeting but I mean you go 520 00:20:26,930 --> 00:20:24,270 to I went to his gig and you know it was 521 00:20:28,340 --> 00:20:26,940 absolutely mind-blowing that it was the 522 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:28,350 first time I felt like a cool kid 523 00:20:33,260 --> 00:20:30,450 because I've got a mess oh my god I'm 524 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:33,270 such a cool thing I like about Tim 525 00:20:37,430 --> 00:20:36,210 Ferguson is it like that one Tim said 526 00:20:39,260 --> 00:20:37,440 look mine up the worst thing about 527 00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:39,270 having him at ms and the worst thing I 528 00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,370 will ever say is that it's boring he 529 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:43,440 finds it boring like you see has people 530 00:20:48,980 --> 00:20:46,170 he has people come up to me go ah it's 531 00:20:50,330 --> 00:20:48,990 so it's so sorry it's so it's so 532 00:20:53,780 --> 00:20:50,340 terrible this happened to you and he 533 00:20:56,150 --> 00:20:53,790 goes yeah problem it's like well you 534 00:20:59,870 --> 00:20:56,160 know it's boring that's the worse it's 535 00:21:01,220 --> 00:20:59,880 gonna be yeah and it's just you know to 536 00:21:03,650 --> 00:21:01,230 be able to have that role model of 537 00:21:05,420 --> 00:21:03,660 someone who is basically getting on with 538 00:21:07,730 --> 00:21:05,430 things what is it I think they can 539 00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:07,740 figure go into the classic line was yeah 540 00:21:13,970 --> 00:21:10,110 or you guys that think you're okay Tik 541 00:21:15,740 --> 00:21:13,980 Tok yes yeah I just went yes that is so 542 00:21:19,010 --> 00:21:15,750 right and that's basically my last slide 543 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:19,020 was pretty much you know life's too 544 00:21:24,260 --> 00:21:21,690 short by the shoes yank down I didn't 545 00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:24,270 swear so you can still wear heels quite 546 00:21:27,950 --> 00:21:26,400 well can I do yes look at that and yeah 547 00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:27,960 and you were writing how much money was 548 00:21:32,930 --> 00:21:31,110 being wasted by shoes like like 549 00:21:34,790 --> 00:21:32,940 apparently bruton's is worth between 550 00:21:36,650 --> 00:21:34,800 sort of eight and depending if it's on 551 00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:36,660 sale or not between eight and a thousand 552 00:21:39,890 --> 00:21:38,370 dollars and women that like shoes love 553 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:39,900 those shoes yes absolutely i'm 554 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:41,370 desperately i wanted to buy a pair for 555 00:21:46,460 --> 00:21:43,290 my 40th birthday but i got ms instead 556 00:21:48,190 --> 00:21:46,470 really I feel cheated cheated that's one 557 00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:48,200 you can't send back either 558 00:21:52,870 --> 00:21:51,200 I get a refund on that well and it's 559 00:21:55,180 --> 00:21:52,880 good to see you using humor very much 560 00:21:57,759 --> 00:21:55,190 like Tim yeah it's like he's the master 561 00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:57,769 yeah I mean I've always use humor in my 562 00:22:02,019 --> 00:22:00,320 work and using humor to communicate 563 00:22:05,409 --> 00:22:02,029 science is it something it's just me as 564 00:22:07,450 --> 00:22:05,419 my personality and I can't do the 565 00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:07,460 earnestness I guess I lose it I Lou I 566 00:22:29,609 --> 00:22:09,110 just can't keep a straight face with 567 00:22:35,619 --> 00:22:32,649 hello Richard and all the listeners of 568 00:22:38,529 --> 00:22:35,629 skeptic zone my name is Ron levy and I'm 569 00:22:40,989 --> 00:22:38,539 the producer and co-host of curious mind 570 00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:40,999 it's about cast about science technology 571 00:22:49,570 --> 00:22:47,360 and history at wwc em-pod cmp OD dot net 572 00:22:51,820 --> 00:22:49,580 each episode will bring you interesting 573 00:22:54,879 --> 00:22:51,830 stories from a wide range of subjects 574 00:22:57,340 --> 00:22:54,889 from physics astronomy and medicine from 575 00:22:59,169 --> 00:22:57,350 arts to science fiction we strive for 576 00:23:01,539 --> 00:22:59,179 the highest production values both in 577 00:23:04,269 --> 00:23:01,549 content and in delivery we already have 578 00:23:06,789 --> 00:23:04,279 on the air episodes about German u-boats 579 00:23:09,849 --> 00:23:06,799 in Second World War about the history of 580 00:23:13,950 --> 00:23:09,859 x-rays and the war of currents between 581 00:23:30,220 --> 00:23:13,960 Tesla and Edison come and have a listen 582 00:23:40,210 --> 00:23:33,289 what we want is some more evidence 583 00:23:40,220 --> 00:23:45,570 hello this is Joe alabaster 584 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:50,170 this week cupping therapy an alternative 585 00:23:55,450 --> 00:23:53,090 health practice cupping therapy is the 586 00:23:58,210 --> 00:23:55,460 placement of cups made of plastic glass 587 00:24:01,660 --> 00:23:58,220 or silicon or more traditionally horn 588 00:24:03,940 --> 00:24:01,670 earthenware or bamboo on the skin often 589 00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:03,950 on the back or neck sometimes elsewhere 590 00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:08,000 including the face using suction skin is 591 00:24:13,030 --> 00:24:10,640 drawn into the cup some of the claims 592 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:13,040 that are associated with cupping are 593 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:16,490 that it is drawing out toxins dispelling 594 00:24:23,950 --> 00:24:20,090 stagnation and or improving the flow of 595 00:24:26,530 --> 00:24:23,960 energy cupping is practiced as part of 596 00:24:28,090 --> 00:24:26,540 traditional Chinese medicine and also in 597 00:24:31,330 --> 00:24:28,100 the Muslim world where it's known as 598 00:24:34,030 --> 00:24:31,340 hijama there are two forms of cupping 599 00:24:35,770 --> 00:24:34,040 therapy wet cupping in which superficial 600 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:35,780 lacerations are made on the skin and 601 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:37,850 blood is pulled through into the cup or 602 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:40,490 dry cupping in which there are no cuts 603 00:24:46,300 --> 00:24:43,010 made and blood is pulled to the skin but 604 00:24:49,270 --> 00:24:46,310 not through there are several methods by 605 00:24:51,670 --> 00:24:49,280 which suction is created fire cupping is 606 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:51,680 when a cotton ball soaked in alcohol or 607 00:24:57,010 --> 00:24:54,050 something similar is held with forceps 608 00:24:59,610 --> 00:24:57,020 satellite then briefly placed in the cup 609 00:25:02,560 --> 00:24:59,620 before the cup is placed onto the skin 610 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:02,570 the heat causes the air to expand within 611 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:04,850 the cup and then contracts as it cools 612 00:25:10,420 --> 00:25:08,570 and a vacuum is created cups with valves 613 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:10,430 to be used in conjunction with a suction 614 00:25:17,650 --> 00:25:14,170 pump are also available its efficacy 615 00:25:20,890 --> 00:25:17,660 well it's good at creating bruises and 616 00:25:22,990 --> 00:25:20,900 in the case of wet cupping scars fire 617 00:25:25,570 --> 00:25:23,000 cupping carries the risk of burns and 618 00:25:28,570 --> 00:25:25,580 skin infections are a risk whenever skin 619 00:25:31,330 --> 00:25:28,580 is damaged and broken cupping can create 620 00:25:34,450 --> 00:25:31,340 blisters blood clots or potential side 621 00:25:36,220 --> 00:25:34,460 effect blood loss during wet cupping can 622 00:25:39,580 --> 00:25:36,230 cause lightheadedness similar to that 623 00:25:42,250 --> 00:25:39,590 experienced when donating blood from a 624 00:25:44,890 --> 00:25:42,260 risk-benefit perspective cupping is all 625 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:44,900 risk and zero benefit there's no good 626 00:25:49,270 --> 00:25:46,610 evidence that cupping can treat any 627 00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:49,280 medical condition or have effects beyond 628 00:25:54,010 --> 00:25:52,130 that of a placebo as I mentioned earlier 629 00:25:56,500 --> 00:25:54,020 though the wet cupping method referred 630 00:25:59,080 --> 00:25:56,510 to as hijama is practiced in the Muslim 631 00:26:01,450 --> 00:25:59,090 world and was reportedly endorsed by 632 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:01,460 so for some people cupping is as much a 633 00:26:07,090 --> 00:26:04,450 religious practice as it is medical Ed's 634 00:26:08,890 --> 00:26:07,100 advanced and Simon Singh evaluate the 635 00:26:11,230 --> 00:26:08,900 lack of scientific evidence for cupping 636 00:26:13,810 --> 00:26:11,240 therapy in their book trick or treatment 637 00:26:15,340 --> 00:26:13,820 alternative medicine on trial which is 638 00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:15,350 well worth read if you're interested in 639 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:17,120 alternative medicine and haven't already 640 00:26:23,770 --> 00:26:21,290 got a copy cupping therapy made it into 641 00:26:25,810 --> 00:26:23,780 the media this week when popular New 642 00:26:28,450 --> 00:26:25,820 Zealand rugby player Sonny Bill Williams 643 00:26:30,820 --> 00:26:28,460 tweeted a photo of himself undergoing 644 00:26:33,790 --> 00:26:30,830 hijama cupping therapy accompanied by 645 00:26:36,550 --> 00:26:33,800 the text detox time and an emoji with 646 00:26:38,830 --> 00:26:36,560 hands raised in celebration the 647 00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:38,840 photograph is a little gory Sonny is 648 00:26:43,180 --> 00:26:40,910 leaning forwards with five cups attached 649 00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:43,190 to his back and two smaller ones on his 650 00:26:47,710 --> 00:26:45,110 neck all splattered with blood which is 651 00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:47,720 pulling in the basis of the cups by the 652 00:26:52,740 --> 00:26:49,760 look of the valves they're attached via 653 00:26:55,330 --> 00:26:52,750 manual suction rather than fire cupping 654 00:26:57,730 --> 00:26:55,340 the first tweet in response to this 655 00:27:00,580 --> 00:26:57,740 photo came from our friend dr. Brad 656 00:27:03,940 --> 00:27:00,590 Mackay a GP with an extensive public 657 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:03,950 profile who replied quote looks painful 658 00:27:08,530 --> 00:27:06,410 and no evidence that cupping is good for 659 00:27:12,970 --> 00:27:08,540 you like getting giant hickeys on your 660 00:27:15,340 --> 00:27:12,980 back ouch end quote this was picked up 661 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:15,350 by several media outlets the Sydney 662 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:18,050 Morning Herald The Daily Mail Mashable 663 00:27:21,460 --> 00:27:19,850 interviewed dr. Brad and published 664 00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:21,470 several statements he made from an 665 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:23,600 evidence-based medicine perspective on 666 00:27:27,220 --> 00:27:25,610 the lack of evidence for any benefits 667 00:27:29,980 --> 00:27:27,230 from cupping therapy beyond the 668 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:29,990 religious unfortunately they also spoke 669 00:27:33,130 --> 00:27:31,610 with a traditional Chinese medicine 670 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:33,140 practitioner who uses cupping therapy 671 00:27:37,420 --> 00:27:35,330 which was a bit of a disappointment from 672 00:27:39,370 --> 00:27:37,430 a false balance perspective but other 673 00:27:41,140 --> 00:27:39,380 media outlets who quote mind from the 674 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:41,150 Mashable article including The 675 00:27:45,130 --> 00:27:43,010 Huffington Post and The Independent 676 00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:45,140 tended to stick to just offering dr. 677 00:27:50,830 --> 00:27:47,510 Brad's perspective this from mashable 678 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:50,840 quote what you're seeing in the picture 679 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:53,210 is basically leaking blood from cupping 680 00:27:59,500 --> 00:27:56,290 a swollen area of skin and quote he said 681 00:28:01,960 --> 00:27:59,510 quote the whole theory about the copping 682 00:28:04,780 --> 00:28:01,970 technique is that it's releasing toxins 683 00:28:06,820 --> 00:28:04,790 releasing bad blood from your body but 684 00:28:09,130 --> 00:28:06,830 basically it's just causing you to get a 685 00:28:12,380 --> 00:28:09,140 bruise underneath your skin there's no 686 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:12,390 therapeutic benefit at all end quote 687 00:28:16,670 --> 00:28:14,850 mckay said a number of his patients have 688 00:28:18,980 --> 00:28:16,680 treated themselves with cupping for a 689 00:28:21,110 --> 00:28:18,990 number of ailments from back pain to 690 00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:21,120 pneumonia and that this has made him 691 00:28:26,270 --> 00:28:24,480 concerned quote even if you're just 692 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:26,280 using the normal cupping technique it 693 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:28,170 can rub against the skin and cause a 694 00:28:32,900 --> 00:28:30,690 significant abrasion permanent scarring 695 00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:32,910 and can even cause infections if you're 696 00:28:38,420 --> 00:28:35,600 breaking down the skin barrier and quote 697 00:28:41,090 --> 00:28:38,430 so there we have some good information 698 00:28:43,310 --> 00:28:41,100 on an alternative therapy making it into 699 00:28:45,770 --> 00:28:43,320 international news thanks to a couple of 700 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:45,780 tweets sometimes it's really worth 701 00:28:50,060 --> 00:28:47,810 politely speaking up on social media 702 00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:50,070 even if you don't change the mind of the 703 00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:52,140 person you're responding to others may 704 00:28:57,500 --> 00:28:55,440 see what you've said for more evidence 705 00:29:00,380 --> 00:28:57,510 please keep listening to the skeptic 706 00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:00,390 zone you can also check out my blog at 707 00:29:13,660 --> 00:29:03,120 evidence please net and contact me via 708 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:16,310 welcome to a week in science from our 709 00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:18,690 AOS bringing you the science you need to 710 00:29:24,050 --> 00:29:22,110 know imagine advertising so good that it 711 00:29:27,050 --> 00:29:24,060 got inside your brain and found a Buy 712 00:29:29,540 --> 00:29:27,060 button well we can't do that yet but as 713 00:29:31,670 --> 00:29:29,550 neuromarketing improves people are 714 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:31,680 afraid that advertising will get so good 715 00:29:40,490 --> 00:29:38,490 that it will control your mind up to 716 00:29:42,170 --> 00:29:40,500 ninety five percent of the brain 717 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:42,180 activity that happens when we make a 718 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:44,970 decision happens at a subconscious level 719 00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:47,250 that means that we can't control it and 720 00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:48,510 we're not even aware of it 721 00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:50,880 neuromarketing trust to tap into this 722 00:29:56,330 --> 00:29:53,430 brain activity to understand how we make 723 00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:56,340 decisions about what we buy let's say a 724 00:30:00,830 --> 00:29:58,290 company wants to test how effective 725 00:30:02,810 --> 00:30:00,840 their new TV ad will be and they decide 726 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:02,820 to use your own marketing they get a 727 00:30:06,620 --> 00:30:04,770 whole bunch of people hook them up to an 728 00:30:09,020 --> 00:30:06,630 EEG machine to measure their brains 729 00:30:11,060 --> 00:30:09,030 electrical activity and then get them to 730 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:11,070 watch the ad the newer marketers may 731 00:30:15,890 --> 00:30:13,530 also track the subjects I movements and 732 00:30:19,070 --> 00:30:15,900 tiny changes in their facial expressions 733 00:30:20,510 --> 00:30:19,080 or they could even be given an MRI they 734 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:20,520 then put all this information together 735 00:30:25,070 --> 00:30:22,530 to see whether the ad promotes positive 736 00:30:27,380 --> 00:30:25,080 or negative feelings how engaged the 737 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:27,390 customer was and when they started to 738 00:30:31,910 --> 00:30:30,210 tune out it's not surprising that people 739 00:30:34,580 --> 00:30:31,920 are a bit worried about where this could 740 00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:34,590 lead imagine a perfect ad which turns on 741 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:37,110 your brain so much that it overrides the 742 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:38,970 part of your brain that makes conscious 743 00:30:43,550 --> 00:30:41,010 decisions this is what ethicists call 744 00:30:45,230 --> 00:30:43,560 our brains by button it means that you 745 00:30:47,390 --> 00:30:45,240 start to lose control of your own 746 00:30:48,770 --> 00:30:47,400 decisions but there's no need to freak 747 00:30:51,470 --> 00:30:48,780 out because we don't have the knowledge 748 00:30:53,930 --> 00:30:51,480 to do this yet and lots of research is a 749 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:53,940 skeptical about their even being a Buy 750 00:30:57,770 --> 00:30:56,010 button because our brains are incredibly 751 00:30:59,900 --> 00:30:57,780 good at adapting meaning that our 752 00:31:02,300 --> 00:30:59,910 frontal cortex will always be able to 753 00:31:03,830 --> 00:31:02,310 override our subconscious but it's still 754 00:31:05,990 --> 00:31:03,840 an area that needs to be closely 755 00:31:07,580 --> 00:31:06,000 monitored and there are calls to put 756 00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:07,590 strict guidelines in place to protect 757 00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:08,880 consumers 758 00:31:13,860 --> 00:31:11,289 you're listening to a week in science 759 00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:13,870 from our iOS and now for fast facts 760 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:16,240 about neuro marketing when you make a 761 00:31:20,580 --> 00:31:18,250 decision most of your brain activity 762 00:31:22,649 --> 00:31:20,590 happens in the frontal cortex which is 763 00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:22,659 also the part of the brain that helps us 764 00:31:27,389 --> 00:31:24,880 to learn from past experiences our 765 00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:27,399 brains account for just two percent of 766 00:31:32,639 --> 00:31:29,919 our body mass but uses twenty percent of 767 00:31:35,279 --> 00:31:32,649 our energy your subconscious can process 768 00:31:38,159 --> 00:31:35,289 information two hundred thousand times 769 00:31:39,630 --> 00:31:38,169 faster than conscious thought and lots 770 00:31:41,730 --> 00:31:39,640 of big companies already use 771 00:31:43,740 --> 00:31:41,740 neuromarketing Volvo for instance 772 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:43,750 recently released a video on YouTube 773 00:31:48,450 --> 00:31:46,090 where they used EGS to test how 774 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:48,460 customers responded emotionally to their 775 00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:51,250 new car design that's it for this week 776 00:31:55,710 --> 00:31:53,440 in science for more information about 777 00:32:00,360 --> 00:31:55,720 neuromarketing go to the are ales 778 00:32:02,639 --> 00:32:00,370 website are I a US or gay you follow us 779 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:02,649 on Twitter and like us on Facebook I'm 780 00:32:15,990 --> 00:32:04,330 Karen groom and we'll catch you next 781 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:18,910 now here's a message for all you Maynard 782 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:21,050 fans especially Maynard fans in 783 00:32:27,550 --> 00:32:23,570 Newcastle may not is holding a special 784 00:32:29,740 --> 00:32:27,560 note Maynard the fast awakens this is on 785 00:32:32,410 --> 00:32:29,750 the fifth of december from eight o'clock 786 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:32,420 to eleven o'clock the Royal Exchange at 787 00:32:39,790 --> 00:32:36,650 32 to 34 bolton street newcastle the new 788 00:32:42,130 --> 00:32:39,800 Star Wars movie is upon me nerd he wants 789 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:42,140 to remind you how poopy all the others 790 00:32:48,070 --> 00:32:45,050 have been with a highly intellectual 791 00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:48,080 evening of the Mel Brooks classic space 792 00:32:52,900 --> 00:32:50,480 balls plus a few movies from the main 793 00:32:55,420 --> 00:32:52,910 art archives ten dollars and there will 794 00:32:57,340 --> 00:32:55,430 be an intermission set to ludicrous 795 00:33:01,420 --> 00:32:57,350 speed and we'll be there before you can 796 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:01,430 say Chad Vader hmm this promises to be a 797 00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:03,050 fun night folks I'm going to be there 798 00:33:08,410 --> 00:33:05,510 the Royal Exchange that's saturday the 799 00:33:10,300 --> 00:33:08,420 fifth and for more information head to 800 00:33:14,380 --> 00:33:10,310 Facebook head to Facebook and type in 801 00:33:18,610 --> 00:33:14,390 maynard hyphen the fast way gan's if you 802 00:33:20,410 --> 00:33:18,620 go to ww skeptics on TV and the show 803 00:33:28,570 --> 00:33:20,420 notes for this episode there'll be a 804 00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:32,420 help out a skeptic in Mexico one of the 805 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:34,080 things I like about the skeptical 806 00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:37,170 community worldwide is sometimes we come 807 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:38,910 together to really help out each other 808 00:33:44,090 --> 00:33:40,850 it's a good thing it's a good thing 809 00:33:45,650 --> 00:33:44,100 Daniel Zepeda in Mexico does need your 810 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:45,660 help at the moment he wants to buy an 811 00:33:50,150 --> 00:33:47,490 oven to bake some bread to sell that 812 00:33:52,490 --> 00:33:50,160 bread to keep himself going he's been 813 00:33:54,890 --> 00:33:52,500 doing skeptical activism for some time 814 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:54,900 now including some videos on the old 815 00:34:01,040 --> 00:33:57,570 applied kinesiology I can certainly 816 00:34:03,230 --> 00:34:01,050 relate to debunking that he's after your 817 00:34:05,630 --> 00:34:03,240 help to help him buy an oven so he can 818 00:34:07,210 --> 00:34:05,640 bake some bread so he can well basically 819 00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:07,220 get back on his feet and help himself 820 00:34:13,010 --> 00:34:11,250 check it out go to www skeptics on TV 821 00:34:15,590 --> 00:34:13,020 and click the link in this week's show 822 00:34:18,740 --> 00:34:15,600 notes and I'm pleased to say that Daniel 823 00:34:21,410 --> 00:34:18,750 is already a quarter of the way to his 824 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:21,420 goal maybe one day Daniel I'd like to 825 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:24,090 come to Mexico and enjoy munching on 826 00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:27,210 your delicious looking bread let's help 827 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:54,300 and joining me now all the way from Los 828 00:34:58,410 --> 00:34:56,050 Angeles the city I've always wanted to 829 00:35:00,450 --> 00:34:58,420 visit or hang on I do frequently if you 830 00:35:02,750 --> 00:35:00,460 ever been to the La Brea Tar Pits folks 831 00:35:05,370 --> 00:35:02,760 that's worth a visit forget Hollywood 832 00:35:08,210 --> 00:35:05,380 anyway joining me all the way from Los 833 00:35:11,940 --> 00:35:08,220 Angeles is Tamara Robinson hello Tamara 834 00:35:14,970 --> 00:35:11,950 how are you I'm doing really well and 835 00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:14,980 it's great to meet you virtually by this 836 00:35:20,100 --> 00:35:17,920 a wonderful video thing hook up we have 837 00:35:21,540 --> 00:35:20,110 because I want to have a quick chat to 838 00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:21,550 you and let our listeners know more 839 00:35:28,620 --> 00:35:23,920 about a very interesting new video 840 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:28,630 series called the feeding tube or just 841 00:35:34,860 --> 00:35:30,610 feeding tube because the website is the 842 00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:34,870 URL is feeding tube one word dot TV what 843 00:35:41,430 --> 00:35:36,730 can you tell me about it and why do you 844 00:35:43,590 --> 00:35:41,440 appear the feeding tube is a really neat 845 00:35:47,010 --> 00:35:43,600 new video series that we're hosting 846 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:47,020 where we are basically looking at all of 847 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:52,290 today's food myths or food fads and 848 00:35:58,290 --> 00:35:56,290 going and really kind of studying the 849 00:36:01,170 --> 00:35:58,300 science behind them looking at whether 850 00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:01,180 or not what we perceive as an issue or a 851 00:36:08,070 --> 00:36:05,590 benefit for multiple diets is really 852 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:08,080 based in reality at all or if it's more 853 00:36:13,770 --> 00:36:11,770 the you know the nature of the blog and 854 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:13,780 the networks where people just get 855 00:36:17,460 --> 00:36:15,130 online and talk about what they think 856 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:17,470 versus what's actually based in reality 857 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:21,130 so we want to be a source for people 858 00:36:27,330 --> 00:36:24,490 that are really looking at a diet to be 859 00:36:31,860 --> 00:36:27,340 able to say okay is this real or is it 860 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:31,870 just a fad so we're pretty excited to 861 00:36:37,850 --> 00:36:35,890 get the video blog our vlog as we've 862 00:36:39,780 --> 00:36:37,860 been calling it um started and going 863 00:36:42,180 --> 00:36:39,790 that's great now there's already one 864 00:36:44,460 --> 00:36:42,190 episode online that's about antibiotics 865 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:44,470 in beef which is interesting now that 866 00:36:48,990 --> 00:36:46,330 they're not going to be long videos are 867 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:49,000 they they're very concise very short 868 00:36:54,060 --> 00:36:51,370 bits of information they are they're 869 00:36:56,130 --> 00:36:54,070 gonna be pretty short all of our 870 00:36:58,110 --> 00:36:56,140 episodes are about three 871 00:37:02,430 --> 00:36:58,120 minute and we try to make them suitable 872 00:37:06,660 --> 00:37:02,440 for all audiences they're also utilized 873 00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:06,670 and education world so people that are 874 00:37:11,250 --> 00:37:09,310 in university studying food science are 875 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:11,260 actually watching these as part of their 876 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:13,330 curriculum which is a really neat 877 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:15,970 additional benefit for us so we get a 878 00:37:20,490 --> 00:37:17,770 lot of really good insights from 879 00:37:23,010 --> 00:37:20,500 professors and people in the science 880 00:37:26,010 --> 00:37:23,020 world to ensure that our content is 881 00:37:27,690 --> 00:37:26,020 dead-on and that we are sharing the best 882 00:37:30,990 --> 00:37:27,700 and most useful knowledge about each 883 00:37:32,130 --> 00:37:31,000 diet but that's really good dear that's 884 00:37:33,750 --> 00:37:32,140 really good to hear the video looks 885 00:37:36,210 --> 00:37:33,760 great the first episode certainly looks 886 00:37:40,740 --> 00:37:36,220 very slick and professional and I notice 887 00:37:43,590 --> 00:37:40,750 it's going to be a sort of am a fan 888 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:43,600 funding or crowdfunding so people can 889 00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:45,490 chip in contribute to get the next 890 00:37:49,380 --> 00:37:47,440 episode produced and the next episode 891 00:37:52,230 --> 00:37:49,390 I'm just having a quick glance over the 892 00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:52,240 website now I see is already fifty 893 00:37:55,500 --> 00:37:53,920 percent funded and they're not there's 894 00:37:57,690 --> 00:37:55,510 not much money needed to actually get a 895 00:38:00,120 --> 00:37:57,700 new episode going and the next episode 896 00:38:02,580 --> 00:38:00,130 looks very interesting is about paleo 897 00:38:05,220 --> 00:38:02,590 paleo diets caveman diets as they 898 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:05,230 sometimes call them so that that 899 00:38:10,290 --> 00:38:06,850 promises to be an interesting little 900 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:10,300 video coming up yes absolutely we on the 901 00:38:16,260 --> 00:38:13,450 Paleo diet or the caveman diet is one 902 00:38:19,110 --> 00:38:16,270 that has gotten very big especially in 903 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:19,120 the CrossFit communities and as as 904 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:22,450 people start to really question gluten 905 00:38:26,220 --> 00:38:24,490 in their diets overall and you know 906 00:38:28,530 --> 00:38:26,230 we're living in an era where almost 907 00:38:31,050 --> 00:38:28,540 everyone is gluten free gluten 908 00:38:33,450 --> 00:38:31,060 intolerant or gluten questionable so 909 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:33,460 it's going to be a good episode to 910 00:38:38,670 --> 00:38:35,770 really start to dive into that and and 911 00:38:41,550 --> 00:38:38,680 see what part of it really is health 912 00:38:43,260 --> 00:38:41,560 beneficial and what part may just be a 913 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:43,270 little bit of fodder to make it seem 914 00:38:47,790 --> 00:38:46,210 more important so we like to play 915 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:47,800 devil's advocate we don't take one 916 00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:49,450 stance or the other we just give the 917 00:38:54,450 --> 00:38:51,760 science the way it is and let everyone 918 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:54,460 make an educated decision and tell me 919 00:38:58,800 --> 00:38:56,290 what's your background and what else do 920 00:39:01,820 --> 00:38:58,810 you do I'm actually chemical and 921 00:39:04,010 --> 00:39:01,830 biomolecular engineer by training I 922 00:39:06,030 --> 00:39:04,020 spent the first few years out of college 923 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:06,040 designing and building vaccines 924 00:39:10,829 --> 00:39:08,170 facilities and then 925 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:10,839 actually got the chance to spend some 926 00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:12,490 time in Europe during the pandemic 927 00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:16,510 making swine flu vaccine for the US and 928 00:39:21,270 --> 00:39:18,730 then I spent the last year of that 929 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:21,280 running a viral manufacturing Department 930 00:39:25,980 --> 00:39:23,170 working with the CDC in World Health 931 00:39:27,809 --> 00:39:25,990 Organization I'm trying to really look 932 00:39:30,510 --> 00:39:27,819 at the first clinical material for avian 933 00:39:32,309 --> 00:39:30,520 flu and then from there I've just I've 934 00:39:35,430 --> 00:39:32,319 spent some time in the green science 935 00:39:38,010 --> 00:39:35,440 field running pilot plants for biodiesel 936 00:39:40,289 --> 00:39:38,020 I've spent some time in the packaging 937 00:39:43,170 --> 00:39:40,299 perspective looking at clarifiers and 938 00:39:46,890 --> 00:39:43,180 new creators for everyday use plastics 939 00:39:48,630 --> 00:39:46,900 and then the last bit of it spent in the 940 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:48,640 post treatment of packaging for 941 00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:51,490 shelf-life stability so kind of have a 942 00:39:57,900 --> 00:39:54,640 very very business background and 943 00:40:00,329 --> 00:39:57,910 science but always kind of focus on 944 00:40:02,730 --> 00:40:00,339 either medical or consumer product good 945 00:40:05,250 --> 00:40:02,740 so it's been kind of neat to kind of 946 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:05,260 meld those Sciences together in this 947 00:40:10,020 --> 00:40:07,210 series and really start to look at both 948 00:40:13,559 --> 00:40:10,030 how the food on the Shelf affects you 949 00:40:15,660 --> 00:40:13,569 and then how the chemistry of the actual 950 00:40:19,049 --> 00:40:15,670 components and the food affects your 951 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:19,059 body so but you're no stranger to the 952 00:40:25,380 --> 00:40:20,650 limelight either i noticed that you're 953 00:40:28,020 --> 00:40:25,390 also a director yeah I am actually I'm 954 00:40:31,530 --> 00:40:28,030 an actor I'm work I work as a producer 955 00:40:35,039 --> 00:40:31,540 for indie stuff I do casting for indeed 956 00:40:37,319 --> 00:40:35,049 stuff so I just joined the union for 957 00:40:40,950 --> 00:40:37,329 acting and have been doing some big 958 00:40:43,260 --> 00:40:40,960 features so I I spend some time in for 959 00:40:45,150 --> 00:40:43,270 the camera on behind I actually am kind 960 00:40:49,530 --> 00:40:45,160 of focusing now more in front of the 961 00:40:51,750 --> 00:40:49,540 camera but I still continue to spend a 962 00:40:56,099 --> 00:40:51,760 lot of time in science it's funny you 963 00:40:58,410 --> 00:40:56,109 sit on us on a production team and you 964 00:41:00,270 --> 00:40:58,420 start talking to them about just normal 965 00:41:03,020 --> 00:41:00,280 how to how to run an efficient set and 966 00:41:05,700 --> 00:41:03,030 they kind of their like minds blown yeah 967 00:41:09,690 --> 00:41:05,710 you don't expect engineers to be hanging 968 00:41:13,710 --> 00:41:09,700 out behind the scenes lip haha we didn't 969 00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:13,720 we do have the efficient it sounds 970 00:41:16,620 --> 00:41:15,040 fascinating well I'm glad you're 971 00:41:18,089 --> 00:41:16,630 involved with this it's a great series 972 00:41:20,099 --> 00:41:18,099 folks it's just getting started the 973 00:41:21,580 --> 00:41:20,109 first episodes really interesting that 974 00:41:26,820 --> 00:41:21,590 website again is 975 00:41:31,870 --> 00:41:26,830 a feeding tube let's one word f ee di ng 976 00:41:33,340 --> 00:41:31,880 tube8 TV go there the videos right on 977 00:41:35,620 --> 00:41:33,350 the first page and you can find out a 978 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:35,630 little bit more about it well Tamara I 979 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:37,370 wish you all success with the series 980 00:41:41,260 --> 00:41:38,450 we're looking forward to the next 981 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:41,270 episode coming out soon and episodes 982 00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:43,610 after that and I tell you what a bit 983 00:41:47,290 --> 00:41:45,440 later on maybe next year when there is a 984 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:47,300 few more episodes out there we'll have 985 00:41:51,310 --> 00:41:49,490 another chat don't even know absolutely 986 00:41:53,230 --> 00:41:51,320 thank you for your time and I hope 987 00:41:54,490 --> 00:41:53,240 everyone enjoys the series definitely 988 00:42:13,990 --> 00:41:54,500 give us your feedback we're always 989 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,890 nice one 990 00:42:25,709 --> 00:42:23,219 hi are you a skeptic living somewhere in 991 00:42:27,689 --> 00:42:25,719 Europe all simply interested in what 992 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:27,699 like minded people are up to in 993 00:42:33,150 --> 00:42:30,249 countries around here I have good news 994 00:42:35,549 --> 00:42:33,160 for you there is a new podcast out there 995 00:42:40,099 --> 00:42:35,559 with the aim of helping you connect with 996 00:42:43,709 --> 00:42:40,109 all those European skeptics the ESP 997 00:42:46,529 --> 00:42:43,719 European skeptics podcast a biweekly 998 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:46,539 show coming out on the 18th of November 999 00:42:53,459 --> 00:42:50,650 on soundcloud iTunes and stitcher come 1000 00:42:55,979 --> 00:42:53,469 and visit our website the ESPE you 1001 00:42:58,620 --> 00:42:55,989 follow us on Facebook and Twitter and 1002 00:43:02,459 --> 00:42:58,630 help us keep the project genuinely 1003 00:43:13,010 --> 00:43:02,469 international and interactive let us 1004 00:43:34,590 --> 00:43:19,100 me crazy I don't know why you can't 1005 00:43:38,410 --> 00:43:36,910 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1006 00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:38,420 zone and thank you to those people who 1007 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:43,250 visit mr. Katz origami jewelry store the 1008 00:43:48,130 --> 00:43:45,530 money made by that store does help the 1009 00:43:51,130 --> 00:43:48,140 skeptic zone keep going so I appreciate 1010 00:43:53,410 --> 00:43:51,140 it very much and if you want to buy 1011 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:53,420 something for Christmas now's the time 1012 00:43:58,270 --> 00:43:55,610 to do it especially if you live outside 1013 00:44:00,700 --> 00:43:58,280 Australia because of the postage coming 1014 00:44:03,210 --> 00:44:00,710 up on next week's show even more from 1015 00:44:06,610 --> 00:44:03,220 Maynard Vox pops and all sorts of things 1016 00:44:07,870 --> 00:44:06,620 some skeptics in the pub here in Sydney 1017 00:44:09,940 --> 00:44:07,880 all that's coming up by the way you 1018 00:44:12,310 --> 00:44:09,950 people in Sydney this thursday night at 1019 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:12,320 the crown hotel from 6pm that's the 1020 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:14,210 crown hotel in the city near central 1021 00:44:18,820 --> 00:44:16,130 station between central and museum 1022 00:44:22,420 --> 00:44:18,830 stations everybody's welcome so some 1023 00:44:25,420 --> 00:44:22,430 more from that and up well who knows who 1024 00:44:27,700 --> 00:44:25,430 knows a mixture of things but for this 1025 00:44:34,300 --> 00:44:27,710 week this is Richard Saunders signing 1026 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:34,310 off from Sydney Australia you've been 1027 00:44:39,460 --> 00:44:36,170 listening to the skeptic zone podcast 1028 00:44:42,580 --> 00:44:39,470 visit our website at wwc a petting zoo 1029 00:44:46,420 --> 00:44:42,590 TV for contacts an archive of all 1030 00:44:48,730 --> 00:44:46,430 episodes since 2008 and our online store 1031 00:44:51,450 --> 00:44:48,740 please support the skeptic zone by 1032 00:44:54,460 --> 00:44:51,460 following us on twitter at skeptic zone 1033 00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:54,470 liking us on facebook and leaving a 1034 00:45:00,370 --> 00:44:57,530 review on iTunes you can also show your 1035 00:45:03,850 --> 00:45:00,380 support by subscribing via paypal for as 1036 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:03,860 little as 99 cents a week the skeptic 1037 00:45:07,870 --> 00:45:06,170 zone is an independent production the 1038 00:45:09,970 --> 00:45:07,880 views and opinions expressed on the 1039 00:45:12,660 --> 00:45:09,980 skeptic zone and not necessarily those